Anyone here trained by Keller Williams?

[Susan in NC]

Hi everyone--
One of the places I'm considering working at (once I complete school and pass the test, that is--details, details!!) is Keller Williams, and I've talked with one of the agents over there who was just fantastic in answering all of my questions (and many I didn't know to have)...it sounds like they have a great split right off the bat (70/30), very low monthly fees as far as desk fees and the like (but i'm not sure what other sorts of things I'm expected to pay for versus them...for example, in printing out color pictures for CMAs and the like, do offices usually let the agents use their printers there for free??)  I've also heard they have great training and I was told about the 3:4:4 camp and other camps they have....but some of that sounded kind of cheesy to me, and I'm wondering if any of you soulful agents went through Keller Williams training and whether you think it's a good place to start....any help would be greatly appreciated! 
Thanks so much from (still snowy) NC,
Susan

[Jennifer Allan]

Hey Susan!

I'm sure we have some KW's here, so hopefully they'll chime in. What I've heard is that it varies by branch - some are really heavy into cheesy training and others leave you alone to figure it out yourself.

There's a thread on here about some really awful KW scripts, and I believe there is some commentary there about the training... http://www.sellwithsoul.com/forum/index.php/topic,196.0.html (brace yourself - there's some funny stuff here!)

Anyway - WELCOME!!!

[Susan Haughton]

I think the standards for each brokerage are going to vary a lot, so it's going to be difficult to get a one size fits all answer.  For what it's worth, here is my two cents - and that may be stretching it a bit.

KW came into our town a couple of years ago, did a heavy duty sales job on all the top producers, myself included, and managed to recruit a few really heavy hitters agents who thought it sounded wonderful.  We lost some big producers and teams to them, but almost all of them have now returned to us, as the experience was not quite what they were expecting - or rather, it was not a good fit.  I did not respond well AT ALL to the heavy handed sales pitch and kept my distance.  They could have been offering 100% split with no expenses whatsoever and I would not have considered it.

Although their split seemed higher at first glance, I have heard some grumbling about the "nickeling and diming," having to pay for every little thing. The big problem these agents faced was what they termed the "cult mentality," but again, some people totally love that group thing, whereas many other agents prefer to do their own thing.  If I had to show up and do a rah rah thing, I wouldn't survive a week, but that's me.  Other people simply thrive on the energy, so if you feel comfortable with the environment and think it will benefit you, I would definitely give it a shot, regardless of what anyone else says. 

Again, brokerages vary and the level of support offered will be different everywhere you go, so what one person experiences in one office or market will be entirely different.   I know I am totally not a fit for KW, because they can be heavy into the cheese and the scripts.  I have worked several transactions with KW agents and I quickly learned to keep their phone numbers on speed dial marked as DNA (do not answer) once the transaction was over because they were relentless in trying to recruit me.  I know not all KW agents do the recruiting thing, but I hate it and always kind of dread getting into a transaction with someone whom ultimately I am going to want to avoid at all costs.  Then again, that's probably as much a reflection on the ultimate cheesiness of the agent than it is necessarily of the brokerage.    Trust your gut and you will be fine! 

[Chuck Capan]

KW is just now coming to my market.  They have 7 or 8 agents so far.  I am intrigued by some of their compensation models. It is somewhat MLM (multi-level-marketing think Amyway for real estate)

Susan that is why they recruit so heavy...the recruiter gets a small piece of YOUR sales.

Susan in NC...As for as the 70-30 split, is there also a 6% franchise fee? Depending on the office cap you may have to do 2.5 to 3 million before the split goes to 100%. Then they want desk fee on top of that? What about E & O? You may be better off at a 50/50 office that doesn't charge the extra fees. IN my humble opinion I think you should consider the initial and ongoing training offered plus comfort level of the office is very important.

I always think if there was just one broker in the market that offered the best of everything...well then everyone would be working there.

[Susan in NC]

Thanks so much for the info and advice so far!  This is such an important decision--where to hang your hat, so to speak, when you first start out, but it's so tough as well, especially when you don't really KNOW the questions you're supposed to be asking when you interview the brokers (aside from the obvious ones, of course)--but all these little fees that Susan H. referred to I know weren't really covered when I was talking with them, so while it may sound great on the surface--70/30, low monthly fees--maybe I'm paying out of pocket for lots of things that other companies give me free of charge?

And while I sorta like the idea of working as a team because that means I can get any of my questions answered, I (also being an introvert) enjoy working alone and the sort of rah-rah "let's all hold hands and recite our lead generating mantra for the day" makes my stomach a little queasy.  And I did feel like I was getting a sales pitch and that the person I talked to wasn't really interested in me, was just waiting for me to finish speaking so that he could tell me the next great thing.

Hmmm...maybe I've answered my own question and I should try another firm.   

[Susan Haughton]

Chuck's point is well taken...there can be a lot of "fees" involved. 

Our brokerage's commission split is based on production and once you have gotten to a consistent level of production, your split just keeps going up.  We have other production-based incentives like free garage parking (worth $150 a month in our market, as we are in an older portion of the city, where quaint, old, upscale neighborhood = hard to find street parking), postage reimbursement, direct marketing pieces, full time graphics support, customizable marketing materials, free advertising, signs, etc.  We don't pay for faxes, copies, long distance phone calls, admin support, desk fees or anything like that.   Our listings are automatically converted to YouTube videos, the company does an admirable job on its SEO and provides free customizable agent websites, etc.  If I use a courier service or send a package FedEx, I would pay for that, but at a substantial corp discount.  We have company negotiated discounts for many cell phone carriers, Dell computers, Windows, etc. so if we use any of those vendors, we get a discount. 

All of those extras have a tangible benefit to me and if I had to pay for all of it, it would effectively reduce my split considerably.  I will say, until you get going full time, though, it may not be as easy to put a value on what one brokerage offers vs what another one doesn't offer, if that makes any sense.  I used to do the math on what it would cost me to go to a 100% or higher split brokerage, but the numbers never really added up for me when I factored in what the brokerage provided and what extras I would end up paying for. 

As Chuck says, if there was one perfect brokerage, that would be the only brokerage with any agents.  I guess I would just say don't get too swayed by the seemingly higher split, because I don't think that's the most important thing, particularly when you are just starting out, and because I don't think things are always as they seem.  At the end of the day, you need to be comfortable where you are and in an environment that allows you to flourish in your own way.  As I always say about my managing broker, the best compliment I can give him is he's super supportive, he's ALWAYS reachable when I need him and he leaves me alone to do my own thing.   

 

[Carol Kerr]

Ah, a question I can consider myself an expert on.... KW training!

When I first got my license I joined KW here in Austin TX.  The office I joined was the SWMC #1.... The very first ever KW office.  Being in Austin, KW is definitely the big dog here.  The office I was at averaged 650 agents during the time I was there  -- 4 years.  I think when KW started their model of reasonable splits with caps and a profit sharing plan was very innovative.  There are definitely agents here who would never have to work another day thanks to profit sharing.  And the fact that it is an inheritable asset means they can potentially keep providing for their loved ones long after they are gone.

I picked KW back in 2005 because I liked the 70/30 split with a cap at $2M, the reasonable monthly fees ($22/month), the idea of profit sharing and their culture of helping other agents.  My background is in corporate training and development so training was also very important to me.  I was not disappointed with the amount of training or even the quality.  Given what I've seen it wasn't bad, although it is full of "cheese."  I could attend some sort of class every day of the week for the first couple of years.  And there were always lots of other agents around to help with questions when I had them.  The overall culture was a little "cultish" and "rah rah" for me, but there was never any requirement to be in the office or participate in the hoopla. 

With 4 years under my belt and ever increasing "nickel and dime" fees, I decided to leave KW last September.  Every office is different so you need to check out the specifics of your local office.  When I started back in 2005 E&O was covered by the split.  Now it's an additional $80 per transaction side.  Monthly fees went to $50 a month for a phone, voicemail and internet I don't use since I've always officed from home and have all that there.  Every copy cost (.08 for BW and .50 for Color -- pretty much the same as Kinkos),  I paid for my own cards, signs, brochures, etc.  There were conference rooms I could use but then I typically meet clients at their homes or on neutral territory (ie, Starbucks).  Of course if I was looking for other realtors to hang out with, there were always lots of those in the office -- but then the last time I checked, they didn't need my real estate services.  I also found out I wasn't very big on recruiting other agents.  Therefore the whole profit sharing thing never really paid off for me.

I'm not saying KW is a bad place.  I stayed for 4 years because I got lots of training, lots of support when I asked and feel like they did a good job of grounding me in the basics of real estate.  I left because I found I was getting more beneficial training/advice from other folks -- the ones here at SWS Land being on the top of the list.  I'm now at a fairly no frills, fee per transaction broker.  They have a couple of conference rooms if I ever need them but I only pay them $295 per transaction and that includes E&O.  I still pay for all the other stuff -- but then I was anyway.  My broker is around if I have a question, but there's not hoopla around it.  Besides the fact that it sort of suits my introverted personality, I figure I will put $17K more in my pocket on my first $2M is sales this year.  I don't know about you guys, but that is enough to pay my mortgage for the year.  I wouldn't recommend my current broker for a new agent but for experienced introverts it's great. 

I still recommend KW as the place to start here in Austin.  Of course if I find the right person I might add them to my team 

If I were looking for a new broker today I would definitely question them about their approach to the internet -- the whole blogging and social media thing -- not just putting listings everywhere.  If KW had had a focus on that I might have stayed longer... Hmmmm.... still not sure it would be worth $17K.  I think I can find a seminar...

[Susan in NC]

Wow--thanks everyone so much for your thoughtful and thorough responses.  I guess it does make sense not to worry so much about all the little fees and such at first until you get the hang of it but rather to seek out that brokerage where you're offered the best training and have that "warm fuzzy" feeling.
Here is the breakdown of our KW's fees that I asked for and was just emailed:
70/30 split with a cap of $20,000... then 100%
6% royalty to Keller Williams Realty International with a cap of $3000

Monthly fees are:
$50 - MLS
$50 - Desk (required for new agents for six months)
$10 - E&O Insurance
$10 - Local Technology Fee (direct line, wireless Internet, shared
computers, etc.)
$10 - International Tech Fee (website, email, Intranet, etc.)

Not sure about the required desk fee for six months--sounds to me like that's heavily pushing the prospecting part of things.

I'm also going to be talking with Coldwell Banker and a popular company in my neck of the woods, Fonville Morisey, and maybe one of those two places will "speak to me."

Thanks again, everyone--I'm so excited to get started, I can hardly wait for my schooling to begin (and I'm sure that's the most boring part of it all!!)
Susan

[Carol Kerr]

Hi again Susan. 

I think the required desk for new agents is really meant to push accountability.  If you're the type of person who wants a weekly checkin with someone to make sure you're doing what you say you are going to do, that's great.   Would really rub me the wrong way though.

A couple of more general comments about KW.  As a rule agents seem to be pretty supportive and helpful with new agents.  They are motivated because of the profit share model.  So in that vein if you do join KW be selective about who your sponsor is.  Your sponsor is the one who most directly benefits upstream from your sales.  You want someone who is a good fit with your personality/approach and that will be genuinely helpful to you.

The other thing is there is also a heavy focus on each office being profitable.  Hence the changes in monthly fees I experienced.  This is a great benefit to those who have agents downstream.  For those who don't play the recruiting game, if just felt like we got nickel and dimed every time we turned around.

Finally, if you join a team at your local KW office they have latitude to set their own splits etc.  So your split may be 50-50.  On the other hand, they might give you leads for that.

As you are looking at costs, I would also look into what your local board fees are etc.  If I'm adding correctly joining KW will cost you $130 a month for at least the first 6 months and that's even if you don't have any sales.  They might also charge you for their required new agent orientation.  Mine was $280 I think.

[Margo6786]

Hi! I wanted to add my 2 cents about KW, since I'm with them,too. But before I go on, I want to say - Carol has much more experience with them than I, since I've only been there since October and licensed since December. So take what I say with a grain of salt.

It does sound like each office varies in costs. For example, my office does not require newbies to have an office there and my monthly fees average around $50.  The splits sound the same to me. However, in my market, E&O is paid in one lump sum, once a year, and our MLS charges us $50 a month, but that's for everyone no matter which RE company you are with.

My newbie training was just $75 for materials for the Camp 443.

The main reason I chose KW was partly for the training, but mostly for the atmosphere. I know I would not function well in an office with no camaraderie, and an "every man for himself" attitude. Other more experienced agents who joined my KW office from other firms at the same as me are shocked at how friendly everyone is and how willing to help each other.

I know part of that is from the profit sharing, but I'd rather that than be ignored and treated like crap by the other agents.

Have a great day, everyone!

[Susan Haughton]

Susan in NC - our brokerage bought Fonville Morisey last year, I think, although that doesn't necessarily mean anything about the individual office or brokerage...just wanted to pipe up and say, "hey, maybe we'll be part of the same brokerage family," anyway! 

[Susan in NC]

Hi other Susan!  I didn't realize Fonville was outside of NC!  Here where I live they seem to have a big market share, and I see their signs everywhere (one of the reasons I'm interviewing them, because they're a "known quantity" in this area!)

To Margo--thanks for your perspective on KW!  They're still definitely on my list because of their training and helpful atmosphere between agents in the office--it's a fine line for me between having people who are helpful in your first six months or so as a new agent and being constantly under the microscope regarding how you're doing and how many sellers/buyers you're working for.  Also not sure about their  "open book" policy where you can see how well everyone else did in the office...I figure I can always leave if I don't like the atmosphere after getting my good training! 

[Susan Haughton]

NC Susan - I don't think they are outside the area, and they still operate under their FM banner.  They are now owned by Long & Foster REALTORS, though, the largest privately owned brokerage in the country. 

[Margo6786]

One other thing I forgot to say. Sometimes I feel like my office is a little schitzo - One minute they will be touting a cheesy script or prospecting method, then they will turn around and promote something very soulful. I just pick and choose what to use of theirs and come here for the rest.

[Carol Kerr]

Ditto about the schitzo thing.  Like with all brokers/offices/advice, it's a matter of picking and choosing the stuff that fits for you.

Regarding KW's open books policy -- I always sort of liked it.  Sometimes it's nice to be able to check and see if that person who's telling you all the stuff you should be doing is actually making any commissions!  Surprising how many aren't...